1
00:00:12,781 --> 00:00:16,901
Lots of local residents
who were closer to the scene than me
2
00:00:17,061 --> 00:00:18,741
thought a bomb had gone off.
3
00:00:18,901 --> 00:00:21,101
It was like nothing
I'd ever heard before.
4
00:00:21,261 --> 00:00:23,461
Where there had been
a three-storey building
5
00:00:23,621 --> 00:00:26,421
moments earlier, there was nothing.
6
00:00:27,661 --> 00:00:30,541
It was shocking.
Absolutely shocking.
7
00:00:32,141 --> 00:00:34,701
I mean, people speculate, I suppose,
8
00:00:34,861 --> 00:00:37,261
whether this was
some sort of terrorist situation,
9
00:00:37,421 --> 00:00:41,581
and we just couldn't answer that...
I think it was trying to understand
10
00:00:41,741 --> 00:00:44,101
was there anything else going on?
11
00:00:44,261 --> 00:00:47,181
Once the police learn
that there's potential accelerant
12
00:00:47,341 --> 00:00:49,901
used, now we know
it's not an accident.
13
00:00:50,061 --> 00:00:51,901
Now we know it's an intentional act.
14
00:00:52,061 --> 00:00:55,061
I look at this
as a very typical staged event.
15
00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:57,141
The police
are under tremendous pressure.
16
00:00:57,301 --> 00:00:58,661
When you have five victims,
17
00:00:58,821 --> 00:01:01,341
this is something that really
is not going to go away.
18
00:01:02,981 --> 00:01:05,741
What then happens is you have
a criminal inquiry
19
00:01:05,901 --> 00:01:09,381
involving multiple homicides.
- They want to see
20
00:01:09,541 --> 00:01:11,901
what's the payoff?
Why would someone do this?
21
00:01:12,061 --> 00:01:14,541
What's the motive?
- The owners stood to benefit
22
00:01:14,701 --> 00:01:17,301
and gain a lot of money
from destroying the property.
23
00:01:18,781 --> 00:01:21,661
Investigators
are going to go backwards
24
00:01:21,821 --> 00:01:24,661
and see where were the owners
earlier that day?
25
00:01:24,821 --> 00:01:27,741
This isn't just about
claiming insurance money.
26
00:01:27,901 --> 00:01:29,941
This becomes a lot more sinister.
27
00:01:30,101 --> 00:01:33,181
It seemed like they knew
what they were doing
28
00:01:33,341 --> 00:01:35,701
and didn't care
about the consequences.
29
00:01:53,781 --> 00:01:56,901
Leicester is famously
a very mixed community,
30
00:01:57,061 --> 00:02:02,621
lots of different races here.
It's a very arty place to live.
31
00:02:02,781 --> 00:02:05,461
It feels like a city
where everybody gets on.
32
00:02:05,621 --> 00:02:08,381
It's just a calm,
quiet Midlands city,
33
00:02:08,541 --> 00:02:10,541
just getting on with life.
34
00:02:13,621 --> 00:02:15,701
There is crime in Leicester.
35
00:02:15,861 --> 00:02:19,381
As somebody who's lived here
for 30 years, I feel safe.
36
00:02:19,541 --> 00:02:22,501
I would walk through the city
at night by myself.
37
00:02:22,661 --> 00:02:25,381
I think Leicester
sometimes has a bad reputation
38
00:02:25,541 --> 00:02:29,301
for various reasons,
but it's not a city
39
00:02:29,461 --> 00:02:30,661
where I feel unsafe.
40
00:02:33,541 --> 00:02:38,021
Leicester is a very busy city,
multicultural,
41
00:02:38,181 --> 00:02:41,981
so it's very lively,
got good cultural activities
42
00:02:42,141 --> 00:02:45,981
and a goodish football team.
43
00:02:46,141 --> 00:02:49,301
It has been better.
I've supported them all the time
44
00:02:49,461 --> 00:02:52,581
I've been here
and will continue doing so.
45
00:02:52,741 --> 00:02:54,981
As cities go, I think
it's very friendly.
46
00:02:55,141 --> 00:02:59,501
The Hinckley Road area
as a very mixed community.
47
00:03:01,381 --> 00:03:05,821
It's got lots of terraced housing,
48
00:03:05,981 --> 00:03:10,901
lots of big houses
where established families live.
49
00:03:11,061 --> 00:03:12,821
You will find everybody
50
00:03:12,981 --> 00:03:17,061
in the west end area of Leicester
and Hinckley Road.
51
00:03:17,221 --> 00:03:19,381
It's got a great community feel.
52
00:03:19,541 --> 00:03:23,301
Lots of shops, lots of students,
53
00:03:23,461 --> 00:03:28,461
lots of artists.
It's a really mixed area.
54
00:03:28,621 --> 00:03:33,541
I would say that people know,
for example, the local postmaster,
55
00:03:33,701 --> 00:03:36,181
they know people
who run their local shops.
56
00:03:36,341 --> 00:03:39,221
You're likely to meet somebody
to say hello to.
57
00:03:39,381 --> 00:03:41,901
You're probably
gonna know your neighbours.
58
00:03:42,061 --> 00:03:44,461
There's a lot of community spirit
around there.
59
00:03:44,621 --> 00:03:48,901
Hinckley Road was
one way out of the city if you like,
60
00:03:49,061 --> 00:03:51,341
as well as one way,
61
00:03:51,501 --> 00:03:53,501
and it's not
too far from the city centre,
62
00:03:53,661 --> 00:03:57,341
so it's quite a good place to live.
Thinking back,
63
00:03:57,501 --> 00:03:59,741
seemed a very relaxed place to live.
64
00:04:05,541 --> 00:04:09,381
One of the buildings
had a shop on the ground floor
65
00:04:09,541 --> 00:04:10,901
and a two-storey flat above.
66
00:04:15,061 --> 00:04:17,221
Living in the flat
was the Ragoobeer family.
67
00:04:17,381 --> 00:04:20,261
There was mum Mary, 46.
68
00:04:20,421 --> 00:04:24,541
She worked at the Richard III
Visitor Centre in Leicester.
69
00:04:24,701 --> 00:04:27,621
She had been working there
for two years,
70
00:04:27,781 --> 00:04:29,941
and she had made
a big positive impression.
71
00:04:30,101 --> 00:04:34,861
Dad Jose Ragoobeer, he was 58,
72
00:04:35,021 --> 00:04:37,261
and he worked as a carer
in Leicester,
73
00:04:37,421 --> 00:04:40,501
and his employer said at the time
74
00:04:40,661 --> 00:04:44,701
that all his clients
loved him so much
75
00:04:44,861 --> 00:04:46,741
because he was caring
and compassionate.
76
00:04:46,901 --> 00:04:49,461
His employer described him
as amazing,
77
00:04:49,621 --> 00:04:51,941
and one of the kindest people
they'd ever met.
78
00:04:52,101 --> 00:04:56,941
The children were Shane, who was 18,
79
00:04:57,101 --> 00:05:01,261
he'd just left school
and he was in a relationship
80
00:05:01,421 --> 00:05:06,141
with a young lady called Leah,
81
00:05:06,301 --> 00:05:10,021
and friends described them
as made for each other,
82
00:05:10,181 --> 00:05:14,301
and so in love. Friends said
that they lit up a room
83
00:05:14,461 --> 00:05:18,701
when they walked in, they were
just so, so happy together.
84
00:05:18,861 --> 00:05:22,701
And Shane had actually
texted one of his friends
85
00:05:22,861 --> 00:05:24,981
to say he wanted to marry Leah.
86
00:05:25,141 --> 00:05:27,421
There's a younger brother, Sean.
87
00:05:27,581 --> 00:05:31,021
He's 17, and he was taking his exams
at school.
88
00:05:31,181 --> 00:05:33,941
Scotty was the youngest brother,
he was 15.
89
00:05:34,101 --> 00:05:36,221
They were so well thought of,
90
00:05:36,381 --> 00:05:40,181
really popular and just
a normal, good Leicester family
91
00:05:40,341 --> 00:05:42,501
living their lives.
92
00:05:44,741 --> 00:05:48,421
The family moved to the flat
in February 2015,
93
00:05:48,581 --> 00:05:52,541
and the flat
was above a shop called Zabka.
94
00:05:52,701 --> 00:05:55,901
It was opened by Aram Kurd,
95
00:05:56,061 --> 00:05:58,901
who lived in Leicester,
in late 2017.
96
00:05:59,061 --> 00:06:02,821
It was a basic convenience store.
97
00:06:06,541 --> 00:06:09,581
Jose was working,
doing his caring job,
98
00:06:09,741 --> 00:06:15,261
and he came home at lunchtime
and he had a chat with Shane
99
00:06:15,421 --> 00:06:18,181
about football and a match
that was on later that day.
100
00:06:18,341 --> 00:06:21,301
Shane asked him
if he could borrow a fiver
101
00:06:21,461 --> 00:06:23,941
from his dad, and his dad said yes
102
00:06:24,101 --> 00:06:27,981
and gave him a fiver, and then
his dad went back to work.
103
00:06:31,901 --> 00:06:34,941
It was a Sunday night,
about seven o'clock,
104
00:06:35,101 --> 00:06:37,901
and I was at home. I was off work.
105
00:06:38,061 --> 00:06:41,221
I think I was
just about to eat my tea,
106
00:06:41,381 --> 00:06:46,141
and I heard an enormous boom.
107
00:06:48,421 --> 00:06:52,021
It was a boom that you felt
as well as heard.
108
00:06:54,101 --> 00:06:56,621
I knew immediately
that it was an explosion.
109
00:06:56,781 --> 00:06:59,621
It was like nothing
I'd ever heard before,
110
00:06:59,781 --> 00:07:03,061
and I ran upstairs to see
if I could see anything.
111
00:07:03,221 --> 00:07:05,941
I looked out of the window
112
00:07:06,101 --> 00:07:09,701
and a few hundred yards
directly in front of me
113
00:07:09,861 --> 00:07:11,781
was an inferno.
114
00:07:11,941 --> 00:07:14,221
The flames were higher
than the roof line.
115
00:07:14,381 --> 00:07:15,981
It was just fire.
116
00:07:18,941 --> 00:07:22,101
It was absolutely shocking.
117
00:07:25,781 --> 00:07:28,221
My first instinct was,
what can I do to help?
118
00:07:28,381 --> 00:07:32,541
But I realised really quickly
that I was too far away
119
00:07:32,701 --> 00:07:36,021
to be of help, that there would
already be a crowd of people there
120
00:07:36,181 --> 00:07:39,261
trying to help, that's the sort of
neighbourhood it is, and I heard
121
00:07:39,421 --> 00:07:41,381
immediately that there were sirens.
122
00:07:41,541 --> 00:07:42,541
Yes,
123
00:07:42,701 --> 00:07:45,501
what's the address of the emergency?
There's been
124
00:07:45,661 --> 00:07:47,581
a massive explosion...
Explosion...
125
00:07:47,741 --> 00:07:51,141
There's been an explosion.
- And the screaming sirens
126
00:07:51,301 --> 00:07:52,981
were all I could hear.
127
00:08:07,861 --> 00:08:09,981
This would be deemed
by the authorities
128
00:08:10,141 --> 00:08:13,421
to be a major incident,
and there would be need
129
00:08:13,581 --> 00:08:15,581
to understand
what caused the explosion,
130
00:08:15,741 --> 00:08:17,861
to make sure
that other people were safe.
131
00:08:18,021 --> 00:08:23,461
And, of course, it would become
evident quite quickly
132
00:08:23,621 --> 00:08:26,301
that there may be people involved
and there may be deaths.
133
00:08:26,461 --> 00:08:31,101
So the police, the fire service,
gas experts, fire experts,
134
00:08:31,261 --> 00:08:34,181
would all be involved in this
as a major incident.
135
00:08:35,021 --> 00:08:38,261
My initial thought was,
gas explosion.
136
00:08:38,421 --> 00:08:41,901
If a building, a random building
explodes somewhere,
137
00:08:42,061 --> 00:08:44,381
most people
are going to think gas explosion.
138
00:08:44,541 --> 00:08:47,261
There were all other rumours
going around at the time,
139
00:08:47,421 --> 00:08:50,701
lots of local residents
who were closer to the scene than me
140
00:08:50,861 --> 00:08:52,381
thought a bomb had gone off.
141
00:08:54,701 --> 00:08:56,981
Our photographer
who I had sent to the scene
142
00:08:57,141 --> 00:09:02,141
got a photograph of a man
who had emerged from the rubble
143
00:09:02,301 --> 00:09:07,021
alive, apparently
not very badly injured,
144
00:09:07,181 --> 00:09:12,381
and people gathering round him,
hugging him, telling him
145
00:09:12,541 --> 00:09:15,101
everything was OK,
and that turned out to be Kurd.
146
00:09:20,821 --> 00:09:23,021
Shortly after 11 p.m.,
147
00:09:23,181 --> 00:09:26,701
the Fire and Rescue Service
said that six people
148
00:09:26,861 --> 00:09:29,261
were in hospital,
and six people being in hospital
149
00:09:29,421 --> 00:09:33,381
had an element of good news
about it, because of course
150
00:09:33,541 --> 00:09:35,381
if people are in hospital,
you imagine
151
00:09:35,541 --> 00:09:39,421
perhaps their lives can be saved.
They said also
152
00:09:39,581 --> 00:09:43,181
that that was the last update
they were going to give that night.
153
00:09:43,341 --> 00:09:46,261
So we concluded our reporting
soon after
154
00:09:46,421 --> 00:09:48,701
and started again first thing
in the morning.
155
00:09:56,221 --> 00:09:59,381
With a building that explodes
and collapses
156
00:09:59,541 --> 00:10:03,981
and has caused a fire,
it's too hot for anyone to enter.
157
00:10:04,861 --> 00:10:08,421
They suspect there will be bodies.
They don't know how many,
158
00:10:08,581 --> 00:10:12,021
but it's very difficult,
even with special equipment,
159
00:10:12,181 --> 00:10:14,501
to get in right away
to see what happened.
160
00:10:14,661 --> 00:10:18,061
And the building itself
was unstable. We don't know
161
00:10:18,221 --> 00:10:20,581
how neighbouring buildings
might have been.
162
00:10:20,741 --> 00:10:24,181
So there's a lot of caution.
At the same time, there's urgency.
163
00:10:24,341 --> 00:10:26,221
It's a very difficult position
to be in.
164
00:10:27,861 --> 00:10:30,581
Initially
investigators approach the scene
165
00:10:30,741 --> 00:10:34,101
with an open mind. They don't know
if the explosion was an accident,
166
00:10:34,261 --> 00:10:36,141
such as a gas-main break,
167
00:10:36,301 --> 00:10:38,941
or they don't know
if it was intentional,
168
00:10:39,101 --> 00:10:40,701
if it was a bomb. They don't know.
169
00:10:42,301 --> 00:10:44,781
It could have been
a gas explosion,
170
00:10:44,941 --> 00:10:47,421
and that requires
experts from the gas authorities
171
00:10:47,581 --> 00:10:50,301
to be involved. It could have been
a terrorist explosion.
172
00:10:50,461 --> 00:10:53,141
or it could have been
a petrol vapour explosion.
173
00:10:53,301 --> 00:10:55,541
None of this would have been known
at the outset.
174
00:10:55,701 --> 00:11:00,221
So it would require
multiple teams of experts,
175
00:11:00,381 --> 00:11:05,581
carrying out
a really detailed, careful sifting
176
00:11:05,741 --> 00:11:09,181
of all the evidence
that's involved in this case.
177
00:11:10,861 --> 00:11:13,701
When we reported
on gas explosions previously,
178
00:11:13,861 --> 00:11:18,221
the cause is named pretty quickly,
it's pretty obvious to investigators
179
00:11:18,381 --> 00:11:21,861
that it's a gas explosion.
But in this case,
180
00:11:22,021 --> 00:11:25,341
no mention of gas was made.
181
00:11:25,501 --> 00:11:27,861
I mean,
people speculate, I suppose,
182
00:11:28,021 --> 00:11:30,421
whether this was
some sort of terrorist situation,
183
00:11:30,581 --> 00:11:33,901
and we just couldn't answer that.
And nor could the police
184
00:11:34,061 --> 00:11:37,061
at that time. I think
it was trying to understand
185
00:11:37,221 --> 00:11:40,861
whether more was going on than,
well, say,
186
00:11:42,701 --> 00:11:43,941
just a tragic explosion.
187
00:11:44,101 --> 00:11:46,261
Was there anything else going on?.
188
00:11:48,781 --> 00:11:52,461
Leicestershire Police said
that there was no evidence
189
00:11:52,621 --> 00:11:55,101
to suggest it was
in any way linked to terror.
190
00:11:56,581 --> 00:11:59,821
My suspicion is that
there would be traces of petrol
191
00:11:59,981 --> 00:12:04,181
detectable
either in the very early stages,
192
00:12:04,341 --> 00:12:08,101
possibly even at the scene,
using portable, detecting equipment,
193
00:12:08,261 --> 00:12:12,181
or quite quickly in the lab.
An explosion is a very rapid event.
194
00:12:12,341 --> 00:12:15,461
The blast travels
faster than the speed of sound,
195
00:12:15,621 --> 00:12:17,581
over 700 miles an hour.
196
00:12:17,741 --> 00:12:20,861
A fire, whilst it can still
be a rapidly developing travel,
197
00:12:21,021 --> 00:12:24,221
it's a much slower
developing process.
198
00:12:24,381 --> 00:12:27,621
So one of the things that would have
been in investigators' minds
199
00:12:27,781 --> 00:12:31,701
was that if this was
a petrol vapour explosion,
200
00:12:31,861 --> 00:12:33,901
a large volume of petrol
would have been used.
201
00:12:34,061 --> 00:12:37,741
Depending on
the particular configuration
202
00:12:37,901 --> 00:12:41,101
of the building and the ventilation,
you get a situation
203
00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:44,421
where you get
such a build-up of petrol
204
00:12:44,581 --> 00:12:48,501
that when you try and ignite it,
it doesn't burst into flames,
205
00:12:48,661 --> 00:12:50,341
it explodes.
206
00:12:50,501 --> 00:12:54,541
Once the police learn that
there's potential accelerant use,
207
00:12:54,701 --> 00:12:56,741
that changes the whole dynamics,
208
00:12:56,901 --> 00:12:59,541
because now we know
it's not an accident. Now we know
209
00:12:59,701 --> 00:13:00,981
it's intentional. Arson.
210
00:13:15,861 --> 00:13:18,541
Where there was once
a shop and a family home,
211
00:13:18,701 --> 00:13:22,661
there is now just a smouldering gap
in the terrace.
212
00:13:22,821 --> 00:13:25,501
It is hard
to comprehend the explosion
213
00:13:25,661 --> 00:13:29,221
that reduced it to a pile of debris,
easier to understand
214
00:13:29,381 --> 00:13:32,061
how five people
lost their lives here.
215
00:13:32,221 --> 00:13:35,381
The police announced
that five people had been found dead
216
00:13:35,541 --> 00:13:39,101
in the rubble
following the explosion.
217
00:13:39,261 --> 00:13:42,701
It was absolutely shocking.
218
00:13:42,861 --> 00:13:43,861
Heartbreaking.
219
00:13:45,701 --> 00:13:49,981
Late on Monday night,
the first picture emerged
220
00:13:50,141 --> 00:13:54,981
of some of the family members
who'd lived in the flat
221
00:13:55,141 --> 00:13:59,101
above the shop. The pictures
showed Mary Ragoobeer,
222
00:13:59,261 --> 00:14:03,141
her son Shane, and her son Sean.
223
00:14:03,301 --> 00:14:07,661
They were considered missing
in the aftermath of the blast.
224
00:14:07,821 --> 00:14:12,421
Also still considered missing
was Leah, Shane's girlfriend,
225
00:14:12,581 --> 00:14:18,581
who was with Shane at the flat
on the night of the explosion.
226
00:14:18,741 --> 00:14:23,381
The Ragoobeer family were
a key part of the local community.
227
00:14:23,541 --> 00:14:26,741
They had lots of friends there,
people who knew them,
228
00:14:26,901 --> 00:14:32,021
who valued them, who knew them
229
00:14:32,181 --> 00:14:34,261
as a good local family,
230
00:14:34,421 --> 00:14:40,061
and they were beyond horrified
that something so terrible
231
00:14:40,221 --> 00:14:41,621
could have happened to them.
232
00:14:44,901 --> 00:14:47,421
It was shocking.
Absolutely shocking.
233
00:14:47,581 --> 00:14:51,661
I learned that Scotty,
the youngest at the time,
234
00:14:51,821 --> 00:14:56,581
was in hospital. We realised
235
00:14:56,741 --> 00:15:01,261
that people were coming
to a little grassy area
236
00:15:01,421 --> 00:15:07,421
opposite where the explosion
took place and laying flowers there,
237
00:15:07,581 --> 00:15:10,301
and we realised
238
00:15:10,461 --> 00:15:15,421
we needed to set up
some sort of memorial there,
239
00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:20,581
and that was organised.
And it was only gradually
240
00:15:20,741 --> 00:15:23,421
I found the father,
who was at work at the time,
241
00:15:23,581 --> 00:15:27,541
and got to know
from his point of view
242
00:15:27,701 --> 00:15:31,301
what the situation was.
It was very important
243
00:15:31,461 --> 00:15:35,101
that I got in touch with the school,
so that we could see
244
00:15:35,261 --> 00:15:37,901
how they were dealing with
the situation, because we knew
245
00:15:38,061 --> 00:15:43,181
that the school
had a big role to play.
246
00:15:47,781 --> 00:15:49,541
When you have five victims,
247
00:15:49,701 --> 00:15:51,701
this is something
that won't go away.
248
00:15:51,861 --> 00:15:53,661
The media won't let this die.
249
00:15:53,821 --> 00:15:55,981
The neighbourhood
won't let this die.
250
00:15:56,141 --> 00:15:58,221
The police
are under tremendous pressure.
251
00:16:00,101 --> 00:16:02,021
They now
have to look at the potential
252
00:16:02,181 --> 00:16:06,021
that somebody
intentionally caused this.
253
00:16:06,181 --> 00:16:09,221
The motives could be anything from
they want to kill somebody
254
00:16:09,381 --> 00:16:11,941
in the building,
they want to claim insurance.
255
00:16:12,101 --> 00:16:15,861
there is some kind of
punitive potential there.
256
00:16:16,021 --> 00:16:19,501
There's limited motives,
but they really wouldn't be able
257
00:16:19,661 --> 00:16:21,061
to tell immediately what it is.
258
00:16:21,221 --> 00:16:23,781
This scene investigation
could take several days,
259
00:16:23,941 --> 00:16:27,381
there's a great deal of
very detailed work.
260
00:16:27,541 --> 00:16:31,181
While that is going on, the police
would be carrying out inquiries.
261
00:16:31,341 --> 00:16:33,781
Initially, these would be
very general inquiries:
262
00:16:33,941 --> 00:16:36,781
who owns the building?
And they would be looking into
263
00:16:36,941 --> 00:16:40,261
the background of people
who lived there,
264
00:16:40,421 --> 00:16:44,421
the people who owned it.
- The person who ran the shop
265
00:16:44,581 --> 00:16:49,061
was called Aram Kurd.
He was the shopkeeper.
266
00:16:49,221 --> 00:16:51,821
He'd taken out the lease
on the shop, and he ran the shop
267
00:16:51,981 --> 00:16:54,101
day to day.
He set up the convenience store.
268
00:16:54,261 --> 00:16:59,061
Kurd was friends
with someone called Hawker Hassan,
269
00:16:59,221 --> 00:17:03,261
He was also friends
with a man called Arkan Ali.
270
00:17:04,941 --> 00:17:08,981
And Kurd
had a girlfriend called Victoria,
271
00:17:09,141 --> 00:17:12,461
who was working at the shop.
He employed her at the shop.
272
00:17:13,781 --> 00:17:17,781
Gradually, a picture
of the history of this building
273
00:17:17,941 --> 00:17:23,141
and its occupants and recent events
would become clearer,
274
00:17:23,301 --> 00:17:27,101
and would basically be
the frame for the investigation.
275
00:17:27,261 --> 00:17:29,421
They would be
talking to the owners
276
00:17:29,581 --> 00:17:32,381
about who might be in the shop,
where they were
277
00:17:32,541 --> 00:17:34,341
when these events happened,
278
00:17:34,501 --> 00:17:37,061
whether they had
any potential explanation
279
00:17:37,221 --> 00:17:39,861
for why they happened,
and of course
280
00:17:40,021 --> 00:17:42,621
it would gradually unfold
from talking to the three men
281
00:17:42,781 --> 00:17:46,461
who were alive that Victoria
was probably in the shop
282
00:17:46,621 --> 00:17:48,461
when the explosion took place.
283
00:17:48,621 --> 00:17:52,061
We have to step back
and think, who's going to benefit?
284
00:17:52,221 --> 00:17:55,181
We're going to concentrate
on the shop itself.
285
00:17:55,341 --> 00:17:59,421
What's the possible benefit?
Or is there somebody else
286
00:17:59,581 --> 00:18:01,701
that has specifically
targeted this person
287
00:18:01,861 --> 00:18:03,901
to injure them?
- They want to see
288
00:18:04,061 --> 00:18:06,981
what's the payoff.
Why would someone do this?
289
00:18:07,141 --> 00:18:09,701
What's the motive?
And they're going to be looking at
290
00:18:09,861 --> 00:18:12,861
the potential that somebody
insured the building or shop.
291
00:18:13,021 --> 00:18:15,381
If Kurd's shop
had burned to the ground,
292
00:18:15,541 --> 00:18:17,941
killing his girlfriend,
he would want justice.
293
00:18:18,101 --> 00:18:21,021
He's angry. He's horrified.
294
00:18:21,181 --> 00:18:24,301
He's grief-stricken.
He's just lost everything,
295
00:18:24,461 --> 00:18:29,021
his livelihood and girlfriend.
They will expect certain reactions
296
00:18:29,181 --> 00:18:30,181
from him.
297
00:18:40,981 --> 00:18:42,621
An explosion of this type,
298
00:18:42,781 --> 00:18:45,661
which then becomes
a criminal investigation
299
00:18:45,821 --> 00:18:47,861
that involves multiple deaths,
300
00:18:48,021 --> 00:18:50,021
would become
a national investigation,
301
00:18:50,181 --> 00:18:54,781
and that adds a layer
of difficulty and complexity
302
00:18:54,941 --> 00:18:59,541
to the investigation, because
there is constant media desire
303
00:18:59,701 --> 00:19:03,461
for information,
which is understandable
304
00:19:03,621 --> 00:19:07,101
and necessary.
But it can be a distraction
305
00:19:07,261 --> 00:19:09,501
to the main thrust
of the investigation,
306
00:19:09,661 --> 00:19:13,061
which is finding the perpetrators
and charging them with the offence.
307
00:19:20,141 --> 00:19:23,541
We knew
that at the time of the explosion,
308
00:19:23,701 --> 00:19:29,421
the dad was at work
caring for one of his patients,
309
00:19:29,581 --> 00:19:35,341
and Mary and the three boys and Leah
310
00:19:35,501 --> 00:19:38,021
were all at the family home.
311
00:19:38,181 --> 00:19:41,461
And although it was a miracle
312
00:19:41,621 --> 00:19:43,901
that Scotty had survived,
313
00:19:44,061 --> 00:19:47,581
and that his dad
had not lost his entire family,
314
00:19:47,741 --> 00:19:50,581
he, a young teenager,
315
00:19:50,741 --> 00:19:54,261
was now in a world
where his mum had died,
316
00:19:54,421 --> 00:19:56,541
and his two big brothers had died,
317
00:19:56,701 --> 00:19:59,941
and his big brother's girlfriend
had died.
318
00:20:00,101 --> 00:20:03,741
And how anyone, let alone a child,
319
00:20:03,901 --> 00:20:07,101
can begin to process that
is unimaginable.
320
00:20:08,781 --> 00:20:11,101
They offered
a sort of rest centre,
321
00:20:11,261 --> 00:20:14,541
and people were given help
if they needed it.
322
00:20:14,701 --> 00:20:18,661
The school were very involved.
323
00:20:19,981 --> 00:20:23,381
The next thing I remember
is the day of the funeral.
324
00:20:23,541 --> 00:20:27,621
I felt the biggest shock
was the school.
325
00:20:27,781 --> 00:20:32,861
The effect was demonstrated
by how they lined the route
326
00:20:33,021 --> 00:20:37,021
to the cemetery by the school.
They stood outside the school
327
00:20:37,181 --> 00:20:40,301
and saw the hearses go by.
328
00:20:40,461 --> 00:20:42,341
It was so moving.
329
00:20:45,301 --> 00:20:47,261
I remember that very clearly.
330
00:20:49,221 --> 00:20:51,341
Being part of the community
myself,
331
00:20:51,501 --> 00:20:57,021
it's fair to say that hundreds,
thousands of people were shocked
332
00:20:57,181 --> 00:21:00,981
and appalled, and,
even if they didn't know the family,
333
00:21:01,141 --> 00:21:03,221
heartbroken by what had happened.
334
00:21:03,381 --> 00:21:08,061
It's unimaginable
that so many members of one family
335
00:21:08,221 --> 00:21:12,981
can be lost like that
and in such terrible circumstances.
336
00:21:13,141 --> 00:21:15,661
And I know that everybody's hearts
337
00:21:15,821 --> 00:21:20,061
went out to the surviving members
of the family.
338
00:21:20,221 --> 00:21:25,381
It's beyond imagination
what they were going through.
339
00:21:29,741 --> 00:21:33,981
It may well be that the police
were suspicious about it
340
00:21:34,141 --> 00:21:36,901
from quite an early stage.
There are two reasons for this:
341
00:21:37,061 --> 00:21:41,581
one is, one of the men
who owned the shop was in his car
342
00:21:41,741 --> 00:21:43,781
nearby
when the explosion took place,
343
00:21:43,941 --> 00:21:46,821
but claimed not to have heard
the explosion. Another man
344
00:21:46,981 --> 00:21:50,861
who was a part-owner of the shop
was also seen on CCTV
345
00:21:51,021 --> 00:21:53,781
running away
from the rear of the shop
346
00:21:53,941 --> 00:21:56,821
shortly after the explosion
took place. What then happens
347
00:21:56,981 --> 00:22:00,261
is you have
two parallel investigations
348
00:22:00,421 --> 00:22:04,781
then begin to merge, as this begins
to look like a criminal inquiry
349
00:22:04,941 --> 00:22:06,821
involving multiple homicides.
350
00:22:18,661 --> 00:22:21,181
UK police
are investigating
351
00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:24,421
a powerful explosion
which destroyed a shop and a home
352
00:22:24,581 --> 00:22:28,221
late on Sunday evening.
Five people died when a shop
353
00:22:28,381 --> 00:22:31,541
and the flat above were destroyed.
- Investigators start looking
354
00:22:31,701 --> 00:22:34,661
for motive. Motive is crucial
in a case like this.
355
00:22:34,821 --> 00:22:37,501
Shortly before the explosion,
the owners had taken out
356
00:22:37,661 --> 00:22:40,661
a large insurance policy,
so they stood to benefit
357
00:22:40,821 --> 00:22:44,261
and gain a lot of money
from destroying the property.
358
00:22:44,421 --> 00:22:48,741
That leaves a big question mark
and a red flag,
359
00:22:48,901 --> 00:22:51,061
and it makes police
start to think
360
00:22:51,221 --> 00:22:53,261
maybe there's a motive here,
361
00:22:53,421 --> 00:22:56,981
and maybe that motive
is the insurance money.
362
00:22:57,141 --> 00:23:00,101
Now we're going to expand
our canvas again and say,
363
00:23:00,261 --> 00:23:02,781
do you know anybody who's had
any problems with them?
364
00:23:02,941 --> 00:23:05,341
Do you know anybody
that they've cheated?
365
00:23:05,501 --> 00:23:08,021
Anybody that's made
any threats against them?
366
00:23:08,181 --> 00:23:11,101
But at the same token,
we're talking to the shop-owners
367
00:23:11,261 --> 00:23:14,221
and say, listen,
tell me about your business.
368
00:23:14,381 --> 00:23:17,061
Have any problems
with your business? Any insurance?
369
00:23:17,221 --> 00:23:19,581
That's going to be a big one.
What's important is
370
00:23:19,741 --> 00:23:23,181
if you find out that there has been
recent changes to the insurance,
371
00:23:23,341 --> 00:23:26,741
that they've increased
the insurance, or they have gotten
372
00:23:26,901 --> 00:23:29,181
multiple policies,
that's another red flag.
373
00:23:29,341 --> 00:23:32,661
They found that there was
a recent insurance policy
374
00:23:32,821 --> 00:23:37,541
for £300,000 pounds for the shop,
And now a fire
375
00:23:37,701 --> 00:23:40,101
that happened
almost at the same time.
376
00:23:40,261 --> 00:23:43,461
We always say coincidences happen.
You should never believe them.
377
00:23:43,621 --> 00:23:44,981
When you hear a coincidence,
378
00:23:45,141 --> 00:23:46,861
next thing you hear
is probably a lie.
379
00:23:48,901 --> 00:23:51,021
The police also found
380
00:23:51,181 --> 00:23:53,541
that Kurd had purchased
a large amount of petrol
381
00:23:53,701 --> 00:23:58,261
three weeks before.
As investigators find the policy
382
00:23:58,421 --> 00:24:02,381
and they find that an accelerant
has been purchased
383
00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:06,861
in large quantities, they now
can really do a thorough search
384
00:24:07,021 --> 00:24:09,981
with the idea that this
is about an insurance claim,
385
00:24:10,141 --> 00:24:14,181
but it also involves murder
... So they have to be very careful
386
00:24:14,341 --> 00:24:18,821
about how they process the scene.
- The investigators will look for
387
00:24:18,981 --> 00:24:23,381
extra corroborating evidence.
They're going to go backwards
388
00:24:23,541 --> 00:24:27,461
and see where were the owners
earlier that day?
389
00:24:27,621 --> 00:24:29,741
Check their credit cards,
their cell phones,
390
00:24:29,901 --> 00:24:33,781
find out where they were earlier
391
00:24:33,941 --> 00:24:36,181
and would they have been able
to set this fire?
392
00:24:38,501 --> 00:24:43,341
At about 2.30,
the three conspirators were seen
393
00:24:43,501 --> 00:24:45,821
in a coffee shop
in Leicester city centre.
394
00:24:45,981 --> 00:24:50,901
And then later in the afternoon,
the three were seen at a restaurant
395
00:24:51,061 --> 00:24:54,021
in the Saint Matthew's area
of the city,
396
00:24:54,181 --> 00:24:58,101
and the prosecutors
later said that at the time
397
00:24:58,261 --> 00:25:02,221
they were finalising their plans
for the explosion.
398
00:25:02,381 --> 00:25:06,581
From CCTV footage,
we know that the three,
399
00:25:06,741 --> 00:25:11,821
Kurd, Hassan and Ali, met in a cafe
prior to the explosion.
400
00:25:11,981 --> 00:25:15,941
So it appears
that police can now identify
401
00:25:16,101 --> 00:25:18,861
at least the core team
of accomplices.
402
00:25:19,021 --> 00:25:23,341
Often in conspiracies
where there's money involved,
403
00:25:23,501 --> 00:25:26,861
people will start realising
when we split this up four ways,
404
00:25:27,021 --> 00:25:28,821
that's a lot less for me.
405
00:25:28,981 --> 00:25:33,141
Who is expendable? The one
that seemed most expendable
406
00:25:33,301 --> 00:25:36,741
was Victoria, and I would think
407
00:25:36,901 --> 00:25:40,181
the reason would be
they thought she might talk
408
00:25:40,341 --> 00:25:43,261
if pressured. So this way,
we get rid of her,
409
00:25:43,421 --> 00:25:47,221
we get rid of the danger
of her telling anybody,
410
00:25:47,381 --> 00:25:49,421
and we also get
more money for ourselves.
411
00:25:50,421 --> 00:25:54,101
At about 5.30, Kurd arrived
412
00:25:54,261 --> 00:25:57,861
back at the shop,
where Victoria was still working.
413
00:25:58,021 --> 00:26:02,981
At the same time, Hassan,
414
00:26:03,141 --> 00:26:04,981
one of the fellow conspirators,
415
00:26:05,141 --> 00:26:09,621
started driving around the area,
in the streets around the shop,
416
00:26:09,781 --> 00:26:15,301
in a white Audi, and he did that
for the next hour
417
00:26:15,461 --> 00:26:18,181
and the minutes
leading up to the explosion.
418
00:26:20,421 --> 00:26:25,301
At 6.56, the third conspirator, Ali,
419
00:26:25,461 --> 00:26:28,541
was seen at the rear of the shop.
420
00:26:28,701 --> 00:26:31,581
He walked towards the shop
421
00:26:31,741 --> 00:26:34,101
and he disappeared from view.
422
00:26:34,261 --> 00:26:37,861
He was then seen
leaving the rear of the shop.
423
00:26:49,421 --> 00:26:54,381
Ali was seen on CCTV footage
running away from the shop
424
00:26:54,541 --> 00:26:58,741
and running after
the slow-moving white Audi,
425
00:26:58,901 --> 00:27:02,661
which was in a side street.
He got into the Audi
426
00:27:02,821 --> 00:27:05,981
and it approached the end of
the residential street it was in.
427
00:27:06,141 --> 00:27:10,861
To the left
was the absolute devastation
428
00:27:11,021 --> 00:27:15,221
that he and his co-conspirators
had just caused,
429
00:27:15,381 --> 00:27:20,301
and they turned right,
drove away from the scene
430
00:27:20,461 --> 00:27:22,861
and went to Coventry,
where they lived.
431
00:27:31,421 --> 00:27:35,941
Kurd had managed
to get out of an alleyway
432
00:27:36,101 --> 00:27:39,381
and into a side street and even
made his way onto Hinckley Road,
433
00:27:39,541 --> 00:27:44,421
where he was immediately surrounded
by people who wanted to help him.
434
00:27:44,581 --> 00:27:47,221
They thought he was a victim.
Somebody hugged him
435
00:27:47,381 --> 00:27:50,221
and somebody said to him,
you're safe now. You're OK.
436
00:27:52,061 --> 00:27:55,181
But they didn't know, of course,
that he was involved.
437
00:28:00,301 --> 00:28:04,221
As police realise
they have a conspiracy,
438
00:28:04,381 --> 00:28:07,101
they know
that there's going to be a leader,
439
00:28:07,261 --> 00:28:10,341
somebody who had the vision,
the plan, who directs everything.
440
00:28:10,501 --> 00:28:13,421
And the likely person
is the shopkeeper,
441
00:28:13,581 --> 00:28:17,181
because he's the direct recipient
of the insurance money.
442
00:28:17,341 --> 00:28:20,541
He certainly involved his girlfriend
in some manner,
443
00:28:20,701 --> 00:28:25,461
and he certainly involved Ali.
Hassan looks as if he's involved
444
00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:28,301
in some way.
But what they'll be doing
445
00:28:28,461 --> 00:28:33,501
is really pressuring the two
accomplices who will benefit.
446
00:28:33,661 --> 00:28:37,661
But accomplices are typically
the ones who break.
447
00:28:37,821 --> 00:28:42,021
So they're going to want
to get accomplices to turn on Kurd.
448
00:28:47,621 --> 00:28:50,581
The next big update we got
was on the Wednesday afternoon,
449
00:28:50,741 --> 00:28:53,861
when police said
that three men had been arrested
450
00:28:54,021 --> 00:28:56,101
on suspicion of manslaughter.
451
00:28:56,261 --> 00:28:59,701
We still didn't know
the cause of the explosion
452
00:28:59,861 --> 00:29:03,981
at that stage. The police said
the men were all in their 30s,
453
00:29:04,141 --> 00:29:07,981
and they said they weren't going to
issue any more information
454
00:29:08,141 --> 00:29:11,181
at that time.
- One of the problems
455
00:29:11,341 --> 00:29:14,621
with doing any type of arson
is, what was the intent?
456
00:29:14,781 --> 00:29:17,461
Was the intent just to cause
a little bit of damage
457
00:29:17,621 --> 00:29:19,381
and then claim the insurance?
458
00:29:19,541 --> 00:29:22,901
Or was there another element?
I mean, was there actual malice,
459
00:29:23,061 --> 00:29:25,461
we're going to get rid of
this witness that we know
460
00:29:25,621 --> 00:29:28,261
happens to be there at the time?
That's one of the things
461
00:29:28,421 --> 00:29:30,941
that police must sort out,
because if you determine
462
00:29:31,101 --> 00:29:35,381
that this is an intentional act,
it wasn't just to destroy the shop,
463
00:29:35,541 --> 00:29:40,141
they had an ulterior motive also
to eliminate a potential witness,
464
00:29:40,301 --> 00:29:42,981
and again, somebody they don't
have to share money with,
465
00:29:43,141 --> 00:29:46,621
that's a whole different picture.
- What police would be thinking
466
00:29:46,781 --> 00:29:49,141
when they realised
467
00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,021
that Kurd might have actually
set up his girlfriend to die
468
00:29:52,181 --> 00:29:55,941
shows that he's pretty cold-hearted,
maybe a psychopath,
469
00:29:56,101 --> 00:29:59,781
and they have to be very careful
about how they question him,
470
00:29:59,941 --> 00:30:02,421
because he will have no remorse
about what he did.
471
00:30:02,581 --> 00:30:05,941
This isn't just about
claiming insurance money,
472
00:30:06,101 --> 00:30:12,101
this becomes a lot more sinister.
And he will have created a narrative
473
00:30:12,261 --> 00:30:16,981
to protect himself
at anybody else's cost.
474
00:30:17,141 --> 00:30:21,101
He'll turn on anybody else
to keep his narrative going.
475
00:30:22,941 --> 00:30:25,701
Another thing the police
have to determine
476
00:30:25,861 --> 00:30:28,701
is whether or not this was
an intentional act
477
00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:32,181
concerning those who lived above.
Was the fire started
478
00:30:32,341 --> 00:30:35,741
when they know nobody was upstairs?
Or was it started
479
00:30:35,901 --> 00:30:38,741
when they knowingly knew
someone was upstairs?
480
00:30:38,901 --> 00:30:41,821
Second thing is,
how much accelerant was used?
481
00:30:41,981 --> 00:30:47,101
Was it just enough to start a fire
in order to destroy the shop?
482
00:30:47,261 --> 00:30:51,021
Or was it specifically designed
to burn the entire place down?
483
00:30:51,181 --> 00:30:54,341
That's something that the police
are going to have to determine.
484
00:30:54,501 --> 00:30:59,141
There's a big question mark
about whether the perpetrators knew
485
00:30:59,301 --> 00:31:02,621
or should have known
there was a family living above,
486
00:31:02,781 --> 00:31:05,781
and knew or should have known
there were people in the building
487
00:31:05,941 --> 00:31:08,061
at the time
they said the explosion.
488
00:31:08,221 --> 00:31:10,421
And that's important,
489
00:31:10,581 --> 00:31:13,941
because it would have been
manslaughter if they didn't know,
490
00:31:14,101 --> 00:31:16,621
if they were not aware
that there were people
491
00:31:16,781 --> 00:31:18,981
in the building
and they didn't intend
492
00:31:19,141 --> 00:31:23,181
or didn't believe that there were
people going to be hurt.
493
00:31:23,341 --> 00:31:27,101
And that would change
if the perpetrators knew
494
00:31:27,261 --> 00:31:30,181
or should have known
that there were people
495
00:31:30,341 --> 00:31:32,181
in the building
when they set the fire.
496
00:31:34,261 --> 00:31:37,661
The difference between manslaughter
and murder is intent.
497
00:31:37,821 --> 00:31:43,781
Murder requires intent.
Manslaughter does not.
498
00:31:43,941 --> 00:31:45,981
The charge was changed to murder.
499
00:31:46,141 --> 00:31:50,061
I look at this
as a very typical staged event.
500
00:31:50,221 --> 00:31:54,221
wherein there's an accidental fire
in order to get insurance.
501
00:31:54,381 --> 00:31:57,701
What's important is
we go back and we say,
502
00:31:57,861 --> 00:32:00,421
hey, there's the increase
of the insurance,
503
00:32:00,581 --> 00:32:03,421
there's all the steps they took
to get all the materials.
504
00:32:03,581 --> 00:32:06,461
It's very clear.
This is the first time
505
00:32:06,621 --> 00:32:09,941
that they've actually done an arson,
but it's not our first arson.
506
00:32:10,101 --> 00:32:12,821
We know what we're looking for.
We know what's there.
507
00:32:30,061 --> 00:32:33,061
The three men are accused,
and they come to court
508
00:32:33,221 --> 00:32:35,421
and they say they're not guilty,
509
00:32:35,581 --> 00:32:38,021
they were not involved
in anything nefarious.
510
00:32:38,181 --> 00:32:41,621
It's likely that when
Kurd chose his accomplices,
511
00:32:41,781 --> 00:32:46,301
he had ensured
that they were going to be loyal,
512
00:32:46,461 --> 00:32:49,541
that they'd keep their mouths shut.
I think in part it was fear,
513
00:32:49,701 --> 00:32:51,701
but in part it was
a sense of loyalty
514
00:32:51,861 --> 00:32:55,181
and connection, because they all
came from the same country together.
515
00:32:55,341 --> 00:32:58,981
They were in the same community,
and they kind of
516
00:32:59,141 --> 00:33:01,821
have nothing to lose
by sticking by their story.
517
00:33:06,341 --> 00:33:09,541
As the trial is approaching,
the media is covering this,
518
00:33:09,701 --> 00:33:14,821
because five people died,
and there were multiple injuries,
519
00:33:14,981 --> 00:33:17,021
and other buildings
were put at risk.
520
00:33:17,181 --> 00:33:20,021
So this is
a significant community event,
521
00:33:20,181 --> 00:33:23,861
and people are attuned
to wanting the perpetrators
522
00:33:24,021 --> 00:33:27,101
to be found guilty
and be held accountable.
523
00:33:27,261 --> 00:33:31,661
People are angry
and they want to know
524
00:33:31,821 --> 00:33:34,661
who had done this
and why they'd done it,
525
00:33:34,821 --> 00:33:37,221
and how whatever it was
that had happened
526
00:33:37,381 --> 00:33:38,781
had led to so many deaths.
527
00:33:38,941 --> 00:33:43,781
I've been reporting on stories
in Leicester for 25 years,
528
00:33:43,941 --> 00:33:49,621
and I've never encountered
an incident that was as horrific,
529
00:33:49,781 --> 00:33:53,301
and that caused so much fury
530
00:33:53,461 --> 00:33:55,861
and so much disbelief.
531
00:34:05,621 --> 00:34:09,341
So it transpired that the shop
that Kurd had opened
532
00:34:09,501 --> 00:34:12,861
wasn't doing very well,
and he and his two conspirators
533
00:34:13,021 --> 00:34:16,581
decided to do
what is commonly known as
534
00:34:16,741 --> 00:34:18,621
an insurance job on the shop.
535
00:34:18,781 --> 00:34:21,941
They decided
that they would blow it up,
536
00:34:22,101 --> 00:34:24,101
claim the insurance money.
537
00:34:25,421 --> 00:34:28,741
Victoria also knew of the plan.
538
00:34:28,901 --> 00:34:33,581
She was involved
in taking out the insurance policy
539
00:34:33,741 --> 00:34:37,701
for the shop, so she knew
what was going on.
540
00:34:37,861 --> 00:34:40,621
But the three men
thought that she knew too much.
541
00:34:40,781 --> 00:34:46,781
So on the night of the explosion,
Kurd left Victoria in the shop
542
00:34:46,941 --> 00:34:49,501
as he went to the storeroom
to get the beer,
543
00:34:49,661 --> 00:34:51,821
knowing the explosion
was about to happen,
544
00:34:51,981 --> 00:34:54,541
knowing that he was
near the door, he could escape.
545
00:34:54,701 --> 00:34:56,061
He left her to die as well.
546
00:34:56,221 --> 00:35:00,221
He comes across
as highly self-centred,
547
00:35:00,381 --> 00:35:02,701
psychopathic, without remorse,
548
00:35:02,861 --> 00:35:06,221
sacrificing his girlfriend
after getting her help.
549
00:35:06,381 --> 00:35:09,821
So he's a particularly bad character
for people.
550
00:35:13,821 --> 00:35:17,181
The issue for me
was being present in the court
551
00:35:17,341 --> 00:35:20,381
so I could hear first-hand,
you know, what they said went on,
552
00:35:20,541 --> 00:35:25,701
and... I think
553
00:35:25,861 --> 00:35:29,421
that's what I felt then and now
554
00:35:29,581 --> 00:35:32,541
is what a waste of young lives,
555
00:35:32,701 --> 00:35:34,181
purely for money.
556
00:35:35,941 --> 00:35:38,181
It was a young family.
557
00:35:38,341 --> 00:35:43,701
They were lovely people.
And what a waste.
558
00:35:47,541 --> 00:35:50,861
I think part of
what the jury has to grapple with
559
00:35:51,021 --> 00:35:54,541
is these guys
are lighting a building on fire,
560
00:35:54,701 --> 00:35:58,061
they have no idea
how far-reaching this would be,
561
00:35:58,221 --> 00:36:02,341
how many fatalities and injuries
it could potentially have,
562
00:36:02,501 --> 00:36:05,781
but they do it anyway,
and I think that's part of it is
563
00:36:05,941 --> 00:36:09,021
not just that
they knowingly killed people
564
00:36:09,181 --> 00:36:12,621
who are in the apartments,
but they knowingly
565
00:36:12,781 --> 00:36:15,861
put many people at risk.
566
00:36:16,021 --> 00:36:19,421
They couldn't have controlled
what happened,
567
00:36:19,581 --> 00:36:24,701
and they did it anyway.
So the sense of calculation
568
00:36:24,861 --> 00:36:28,581
just for financial gain
and nothing more
569
00:36:28,741 --> 00:36:32,101
is astonishing to people.
This is so petty.
570
00:36:32,261 --> 00:36:35,261
People died and were injured
571
00:36:35,421 --> 00:36:39,581
for something
as small as a financial incentive.
572
00:36:39,741 --> 00:36:43,661
The fact that the defendants
showed no emotion
573
00:36:43,821 --> 00:36:46,061
would come across
as seeming indifferent
574
00:36:46,221 --> 00:36:50,221
and without any kind of remorse,
575
00:36:50,381 --> 00:36:52,541
without any sense
of what they had done.
576
00:36:52,701 --> 00:36:56,781
The jury will, as they're
coming to grips with the evidence
577
00:36:56,941 --> 00:37:00,901
and thinking these guys are guilty,
are seeing people
578
00:37:01,061 --> 00:37:04,661
who just don't care,.
and that will also be alienating.
579
00:37:13,901 --> 00:37:18,141
After hearing all the evidence,
the jury ultimately decided
580
00:37:18,301 --> 00:37:21,381
that the three conspirators
were guilty of murder.
581
00:37:21,541 --> 00:37:24,981
That meant the jury was sure
582
00:37:25,141 --> 00:37:28,381
that those three men
knew the flat was occupied
583
00:37:28,541 --> 00:37:31,861
when they
caused the explosion to happen.
584
00:37:33,221 --> 00:37:36,901
That's.... it's hard to put
into words, isn't it? Honestly.
585
00:37:41,181 --> 00:37:45,301
That, to me, is beyond evil.
586
00:37:48,181 --> 00:37:51,101
I think people saw it as justice
587
00:37:51,261 --> 00:37:53,741
that they
didn't get away completely,
588
00:37:53,901 --> 00:37:57,021
although I think any thought
s about justice
589
00:37:57,181 --> 00:38:01,381
was about how terrible it was
this family lost their lives.
590
00:38:03,261 --> 00:38:04,901
Nearly a whole family.
591
00:38:07,741 --> 00:38:12,181
So it was important
that they'd got their dues.
592
00:38:14,461 --> 00:38:19,141
But I think the greater thought
was about how tragic this was.
593
00:38:20,061 --> 00:38:25,421
It was done as an act of insurance,
594
00:38:25,581 --> 00:38:27,221
you know, just to get money.
595
00:38:27,381 --> 00:38:31,221
But how you link those two
at the time was quite difficult,
596
00:38:31,381 --> 00:38:36,821
I think, really.
How did Jose and Scotty,
597
00:38:36,981 --> 00:38:39,661
how did they deal with that?
598
00:38:39,821 --> 00:38:44,141
Their mother and their two brothers,
and then Leah were killed.
599
00:38:44,301 --> 00:38:46,021
I mean, it's just dreadful.
600
00:38:47,501 --> 00:38:50,541
It seemed like they knew
what they were doing...
601
00:38:51,901 --> 00:38:53,941
...and didn't care
about the consequences.
602
00:38:55,061 --> 00:38:57,341
I felt it there as well.
603
00:38:57,501 --> 00:39:01,621
But afterwards,
when you're picking up, you know,
604
00:39:01,781 --> 00:39:05,461
picking up the pieces,
trying to adjust
605
00:39:05,621 --> 00:39:08,221
and see what's going on,
that's when you felt it.
606
00:39:09,501 --> 00:39:12,981
This was
such a cold and calculated plan
607
00:39:13,141 --> 00:39:17,701
to stage an explosion
just to benefit from the insurance.
608
00:39:18,781 --> 00:39:22,221
The insurance payout was £300,000.
609
00:39:22,381 --> 00:39:24,621
So each of these co-conspirators
610
00:39:24,781 --> 00:39:29,061
stood to gain £100,000 apiece.
611
00:39:29,221 --> 00:39:32,821
It's tragic to think
that these three people
612
00:39:32,981 --> 00:39:35,741
were so focused on getting money
613
00:39:35,901 --> 00:39:38,941
that they put the value
of human life
614
00:39:39,101 --> 00:39:42,941
below the money
that they stood to gain.
615
00:39:43,901 --> 00:39:47,141
No amount of jail time
is going to bring back mothers,
616
00:39:47,301 --> 00:39:51,301
fathers, friends,
people who were lost or harmed
617
00:39:51,461 --> 00:39:52,621
during this explosion.
618
00:39:52,781 --> 00:39:57,061
There's no amount...
there is no amount of years,
619
00:39:57,221 --> 00:40:01,701
there's no amount of prison
that can bring back a human life.
620
00:40:01,861 --> 00:40:06,101
It just doesn't
seem to make any sense
621
00:40:06,261 --> 00:40:11,861
that somebody thought that gain
was worth killing just one person,
622
00:40:12,021 --> 00:40:17,541
let alone five,
and putting the entire area at risk.
623
00:40:17,701 --> 00:40:21,421
It doesn't seem worth it.
It's really hard to fathom a mind
624
00:40:21,581 --> 00:40:23,821
that could calculate like this
625
00:40:23,981 --> 00:40:29,861
and think walking away
with even £100,000
626
00:40:30,021 --> 00:40:32,821
for their share made this worth it.
627
00:40:41,341 --> 00:40:44,341
Going back there,
you could see the effect
628
00:40:44,501 --> 00:40:47,021
of what was a huge explosion.
because the gap.
629
00:40:47,181 --> 00:40:52,421
The city council or some company.
put fencing around the area,
630
00:40:52,581 --> 00:40:56,981
not to hide it but to make it safe.
631
00:40:57,141 --> 00:41:00,261
People talking about,
what are we going to do?
632
00:41:00,421 --> 00:41:03,301
Are we going to fill that gap?
The idea going around,
633
00:41:03,461 --> 00:41:06,021
we need to make it
into a little park.
634
00:41:06,181 --> 00:41:10,421
But what we did was make
a little park memorial opposite.
635
00:41:10,581 --> 00:41:14,261
I hope that people
still remember that in some way.
636
00:41:16,101 --> 00:41:18,221
For most people,
it's impossible to imagine
637
00:41:18,381 --> 00:41:21,701
something like this
affecting their family.
638
00:41:21,861 --> 00:41:24,541
And I cannot begin to imagine
639
00:41:24,701 --> 00:41:28,701
how Jose and Scotty
640
00:41:28,861 --> 00:41:30,141
and Leah's family
641
00:41:30,301 --> 00:41:33,501
even began to rebuild their lives,
642
00:41:33,661 --> 00:41:35,981
if they've managed
to rebuild their lives after.
643
00:41:36,141 --> 00:41:38,741
Of course,
the impact on those families
644
00:41:38,901 --> 00:41:40,421
will be there forever.
645
00:41:42,221 --> 00:41:46,221
There's the tragedy,
and there's the crime,
646
00:41:46,381 --> 00:41:50,581
the explosion.
In terms of the tragedy,
647
00:41:50,741 --> 00:41:54,221
you can't you can't foretell
how you could deal with that.
648
00:41:54,381 --> 00:41:57,341
You just make sure
that you've got people
649
00:41:57,501 --> 00:42:03,501
supporting and around. That goes on
for some time. It doesn't stop.
650
00:42:05,501 --> 00:42:08,821
It's going to take time
for the community to heal
651
00:42:08,981 --> 00:42:11,381
from this tragedy
and to heal from this loss,
652
00:42:11,541 --> 00:42:14,621
and there's also a physical scar,
a physical reminder
653
00:42:14,781 --> 00:42:19,061
that will always be there.
Every time anyone walks by the place
654
00:42:19,221 --> 00:42:20,861
where this building was,
655
00:42:21,021 --> 00:42:23,741
they're going to be reminded
of what happened there.
656
00:42:55,981 --> 00:42:57,981
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